@DJ Incompetent , it depends strongly on the projector you're using -- home theater projectors tend to introduce just as much processing/input lag as televisions, and many office projectors do as well.
In my experience, that is a viable solution, DrMarioKart. I am using a 22" 1680x1050 monitor, and with the VGA cables, I can run at the native res so the picture is damn good. I play RB2 with no lag whatsoever.
@ isurus. I believe the issue of the article is not upscaling lag, but video processing lag, which can still happen even when you are displaying at the native resolution.
You bring up an interesting point that I would like to question further. Will hooking up a console to a computer monitor via VGA (not a TV that has VGA/HDMI output) eliminate the problem of video processing delay while still giving you an HD picture?
Surely most PC monitors (LCD or CRT) arent concerned about picture quality enough to add much video processing. I usually notice a slight delay when playing PS3 games on HDTVs but not when I'm typing or playing games on the computer, for example.
If your Xbox 360 does not output to your TV's native resolution, like a 1360x768 TV, then buy a VGA cable for your Xbox 360 > hook it up to a computer monitor > change your Xbox display to your TV's native resolution > then unplug from your monitor and plug into your HDTV.
@breachless: Sliding lag, that's really interesting -- do you have the Rock Band 2 guitar with built-in calibration? If so you could take your subjectivity out of the test and see if the TV really does get worse over time.
That's one of the biggest problems with the lag issue, most folks feel it subjectively and actually measuring it accurately is difficult.
In my never ending battle to figure out the best way to play Rock Band 2 on my HDTV in the basement, I have found a really simple solution: instead of running my 360 through the HDMI cable, I switched over to the less pretty, but MUCH less laggy component cables.
This may sound crazy, and it could very well be my imagination, but when playing with the HDMI cable, the lag seems to get worse with time. You can go into options when you first turn it on and calibrate it to where it's reasonably good, but an hour or two later, it gets considerably worse.
With the component cable, you calibrate your lag settings and you can play for hours upon hours with little to no problems. It kind of sucks switching between HDMI and Component whenever I want to play Rock Band 2, but it works... And that makes me happy.
@MyForumSN: I don't have much experience with using a television set to a different frequency, but I'd hypothesize that any output difference would need to be converted digitally and could introduce lag. If you learn anything else, please come back and share it!
@KillerMelons: It's good to see a site that addresses the lag issue! I hope they keep it up.
@superberg: In my experience, HD tube televisions can be subject to the same types of lag that LCD/Plasmas are. The lag isn't primarily the result of display mechanics, it's caused by digital image processing that all HDTVs utilize. My first HDTV was a 27" tube and it still had upwards of 80ms lag. If your set has a low enough lag so that it doesn't bother you, that's fantastic. :D
OmegaVader, I've found that different music games operate at different timings. I suspect that the "base rate" for 0ms is actually different between them all, which would account for the discrepancies you've seen. The VGA cable sounds like a great option, as monitors don't have the same processing issues that televisions have.
My sony 50" HDTV has some weird fluctuations -- it's suppose to be native 1080i, but Guitar Hero II on 360 runs without lag at 720p. The original rock band can run at 1080i in game mode with no lag, but Rock Band 2 (my music game of choice) lags both at 720p and 1080i game mode! It's befuddling, and really hurts my overall performance (and thus enjoyment) of the game.
However, I only use that tv when playing with others. When by myself, I'm connected to a 1680x1050 monitor using a VGA cable (so it outputs at the native res), before that I used regular component cables (the monitor has component input) -- while the latter option has a scaled, poor image, both options nonetheless result in lag-free gaming. It's the only way I know to get wide-screen, better-than-SDTV music gaming. An alright solution for now, albeit the monitor is only 22".
MyForumSN, those problems should NOT be inherent to 120Hz TVs.
I personally own a Sony 46XBR6 120Hz TV which has no noticeable lag when Game Mode is enabled. Disabled (and with certain picture-enhancing effects on), I can notice a lag difference between it and Game Mode, but it's still quite playable.
I've also played on a Samsung A850 in Game Mode and that one ran great, too.
I hate excessive video lag, so I'd say I'm quite sensitive to it, but I've been pleased with the 120Hz TVs that I've game'd on. And I've witnessed a lot of lag in non-120Hz models (especially ones that sadly have no game mode to speak of).
In summary: 120Hz TVs are fine. Just enable game mode, like you should for any applicable HDTV.
ive heard about problems with lag on newer HDTVs with 120hz versus the old 60hz. The extra Hz help with sports when watching tv but the 60hz is ideal for gaming from what little I've read. It's made me question buying newer tvs like let's say a Sony 32xbr9, ive looked at others like samsung, lg and toshibas comparable 32 inchers, but im still nervous about buying a 120hz tv.
I might just go with a model from last year if they're still available by August...
I was wondering what other people think about 120hz vs 60hz hdtvs... or if any body has anecdotes. I wonder how noticeable lag is when gaming online as well.
'In the 90s, "lag" usually referred to network latency. It was a direct reflection of the speed and stability of your internet connection. A low ping time could be the difference between a visceral game of Quake and trudging through a soup of seemingly random death. Thanks to more widespread broadband internet access and better programming tricks, network latency isn't as big a problem as it once was.'
Unless you live in some geographically isolated corner of the world with mediocre internet cabling, in which case lag is still alive and well.
Alas, Tate, thou hadst much comedic potential...it is noweth wasted upon such uninspired drivel. It was bad enough that the voice of Bender was Marcus, of "They're sinking cities with GIANT WORMS" infamy...
@RevolvingDork Wish I could take credit, but you can blame Canada for that...